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remish, you have written about the pessimistic view on the fiscal cliff negotiations. why don't you think a deal gets done? >> well, i just think the parties are too far apart. if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the congressman. i think that we are likely not to get a deal before the beginning of the year. >> but do you think it was a senator lindsey graham indicated there at the beginning, do you think it was a political calculation or is a political calculation on the part of the white house? >> well, i think there are political calculations being made by everybody in washington right now, but i don't think it's a secret that the democrats believe, in a lot of cases, that they have the upper hand in the p.r. war over this issue. >> perry, this is grover norquist just a few hours ago on "meet the
remish, you have written about the pessimistic view on the fiscal cliff negotiations. why don't you think a deal gets done? >> well, i just think the parties are too far apart. if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the...
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investors appeared optimistic about avoiding the fiscal cliff after president obama suggested that a deal could be reached in about a week. >>> the government issues a new warning about reverse mortgages. those are mortgages that give senior citizen homeowners an immediate cash payment in exchange for future equity. today, the obama administration will recommend congress prohibit large lump sum payments for reverse mortgages. and it will recommend that seniors be very careful before signing one. >>> a new starbucks store is likely coming soon to a neighborhood near you. the coffee giant plans to over 1,500 more cafes over the next 5 years. another 1,500 stores are planned for canada and latin america. starbucks has expansion plans in china and for its product line sold in grocery stores and other vendors. >>> your smartphone will soon be able to send how your feeling and respond proeply. it uses voice features. it was successful about 80% of the time in correctly identifying the emotion. rob, can you tell my emotion right now? >> you sound happy and wide-awake. >> i'm very happy. >>
investors appeared optimistic about avoiding the fiscal cliff after president obama suggested that a deal could be reached in about a week. >>> the government issues a new warning about reverse mortgages. those are mortgages that give senior citizen homeowners an immediate cash payment in exchange for future equity. today, the obama administration will recommend congress prohibit large lump sum payments for reverse mortgages. and it will recommend that seniors be very careful before...
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. >>> the latest on that fiscal cliff. everyone's taxes set to go up in just 27 days if congress and the white house can't strike a deal. and publicly, at least, president obama is taking a harder line with every day that goes by. abc's jake tapper is covering it all from the white house. and it's clear that president obama believes he has the upper hand here. >> reporter: he sure does, george. and later today, president obama will speak to corporate executives at the business roundtable. and he'll try to enlist their help in his negotiations with congressional republicans. and his latest demand, that congress remove its own power as it stands right now, to raise the debt ceiling. it is a bold gambit that congressional republicans are already calling a non-starter. paul ryan stepped back into the spotlight late tuesday, with a feisty shot at the president. >> i congratulate him on his victory. but on january 20th, he'll face a stagnant economy and a fiscal mess. you might even say he'll inherit these problems. >> reporter:
. >>> the latest on that fiscal cliff. everyone's taxes set to go up in just 27 days if congress and the white house can't strike a deal. and publicly, at least, president obama is taking a harder line with every day that goes by. abc's jake tapper is covering it all from the white house. and it's clear that president obama believes he has the upper hand here. >> reporter: he sure does, george. and later today, president obama will speak to corporate executives at the business...
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Dec 4, 2012
12/12
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cliff deals speaker boehner can work out with the president. he can't work anything out without this guy's approval. yesterday grover norquist warned of a wave of tea party anger, a tea party two that would dwarf anything we've seen before. let's take a look at the threat from grover. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obama care that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion dollar tax increase, was pushed over until after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, that are being -- those all hit after the election. we got four bad years of regulation taxes, he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party two is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> there's a dr. strangelove. how many republicans will be willing to stand up to that threat? david corn is here to talk about it, the washington bureau chief for mother jones and the author of "47 percent." he's a member of the gridiron society. and john fe
cliff deals speaker boehner can work out with the president. he can't work anything out without this guy's approval. yesterday grover norquist warned of a wave of tea party anger, a tea party two that would dwarf anything we've seen before. let's take a look at the threat from grover. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obama care that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion dollar tax increase, was pushed over until...
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what do americans want to see in a fiscal cliff deal? >> the polls are at these num, the big sticking points, should taxes be raised on those making over $250,000 a taxes would be raised if there's no deal to avert the fiscal cliff. yesterday as you said, the president was in northern virginia meeting with a middle class family who would suffer if there was no deal. last week the president went to suburban philadelphia, to a small business again to make the point of his side in these fiscal cliff negotiations. different than a year and a half ago when the president dealt only with republicans in congress. this time he is taking the case to americans and getting outside of washington, d.c. congressional republicans not so happy that the president is doing this. >> we understand that. paul steinhauser live in washington, thank you. >>> let's talk more about the fiscal cliff. we have the washington correspondent for the new yorker and cnn contributor ryan lizza with us. john boehner and the president in a room, just the two of them. good id
what do americans want to see in a fiscal cliff deal? >> the polls are at these num, the big sticking points, should taxes be raised on those making over $250,000 a taxes would be raised if there's no deal to avert the fiscal cliff. yesterday as you said, the president was in northern virginia meeting with a middle class family who would suffer if there was no deal. last week the president went to suburban philadelphia, to a small business again to make the point of his side in these...
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Dec 5, 2012
12/12
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they are nowhere near a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff. peter doocy is life in washington with more. >> republicans have had their proposal to avoid the fiscal cliff complete with 800 billion of new revenue over a decade on the table for more than a day now. it has yet to be publicly embraced by the slightest bit by any prominent democrats. because of that gop lawmakers are saying that means the white house wants to go over the fiscal cliff to make it a point. >> howard dean said it patti murray who ran the senator ideal committee. i think the presidency is a political victory for his party as they go over the cliff. i know republicans are concerned there is going to be a secondary session. >> the white house proposal raises taxes 1.6 trillion over a decade. republicans close loopholes and get rid of deductions. they say the mast won't work. >>> it is still out of balance. it is 800 million worth of revenues. he said he is going to do that by lowering rates. when you look at the map it doesn't work. >> the house majority with kevin mccarth
they are nowhere near a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff. peter doocy is life in washington with more. >> republicans have had their proposal to avoid the fiscal cliff complete with 800 billion of new revenue over a decade on the table for more than a day now. it has yet to be publicly embraced by the slightest bit by any prominent democrats. because of that gop lawmakers are saying that means the white house wants to go over the fiscal cliff to make it a point. >> howard...
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Dec 5, 2012
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you had to deal with the bad republican hand on the fiscal cliff now for better part of a month. this is something to look forward to. that you have two republicans leading the party of this stature and capability. who are movement conservatives in the sense they're both intellectuals. to get these issues viscerally this is something to put you in a good mood. >> bret: rubio talked about the middle class. ryan talked about lifting people out of poverty. different messages than we heard on the campaign trail this past year. >> rub row also seemed to be sort of disagreeing with mitt romney's argument a little bit. the 47% people who just want hand-outs. kind of a thing. which he disagreed with before. it's interesting because i think it's reprehensible message. i also, i wonder where jeb bush fits in to this also. i can't speak to that since i'm not a conservative but i think he would be one of leading contenders along with these two gentlemen. >> charles? >> i share steve's optimism. we are looking at the future of the party. generational change. the goldwater republicans and the
you had to deal with the bad republican hand on the fiscal cliff now for better part of a month. this is something to look forward to. that you have two republicans leading the party of this stature and capability. who are movement conservatives in the sense they're both intellectuals. to get these issues viscerally this is something to put you in a good mood. >> bret: rubio talked about the middle class. ryan talked about lifting people out of poverty. different messages than we heard on...
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up next, the fiscal cliff. it is hung up on tax for the rich. not really. we will tell you why those taxes are going up regardless of the deal. tomorrow, former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, moody's keep -- chief economists. best-selling author among our guest. please be with us. and as we go to break, here's a little christmas cheer. before pd... i took my son fishing every year. e had greaspot, not easy find, but worth it. butith copd making it hard to breathe, i thought those days might be over. so my doctor prescribed symbicort. it t helps significantly improe my lungunction starting within five nutes. sybicort doesn replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. with symbicort, today i'm breathing better. and thameans...fish on! symbicort is for copd including chronicnchitis and emphysema. it should n be taken rthan twice day. sybirt may increase your risk of lung fections, osteoporosis,s, d some eye problems. ll ur doct if you have a heart condition ohigh blood pressure before taking it. with copd, i thought i'd miss our family tradition now s
up next, the fiscal cliff. it is hung up on tax for the rich. not really. we will tell you why those taxes are going up regardless of the deal. tomorrow, former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, moody's keep -- chief economists. best-selling author among our guest. please be with us. and as we go to break, here's a little christmas cheer. before pd... i took my son fishing every year. e had greaspot, not easy find, but worth it. butith copd making it hard to breathe, i thought those days...
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Dec 6, 2012
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cliff than if you deal with president obama. >> greta: well, it appears to many in the city that it's politico check mate for the president. if we go over the fiscal cliff, what it means is the taxes will go up on the wealthy, the big earners. it also goes up on the middle class. i assume the middle class will look to the rawp republicans foe fact that their taxes come up so political check mate. >> i'm not so sure. president obama could avoid that very simply by putting maybe two or three to one expenditure reductions on the table for revenue increases, something like sim responsibl simpson bow. he has a formula given to him by a commission he appointed and heted that formula and presented to the republicans a program which was basically just a massive tax increase over and above the massive tax increase that's going to take place with the bush tax cuts expiring, so i don't see where there's -- he hasn't given them room to compromise. maybe if he had put his tax increases on the table and put up expenditure reductions of, you know, one and a half to one and republicans can negotiate
cliff than if you deal with president obama. >> greta: well, it appears to many in the city that it's politico check mate for the president. if we go over the fiscal cliff, what it means is the taxes will go up on the wealthy, the big earners. it also goes up on the middle class. i assume the middle class will look to the rawp republicans foe fact that their taxes come up so political check mate. >> i'm not so sure. president obama could avoid that very simply by putting maybe two...
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Dec 1, 2012
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cliff deadline is looming large? >> the makings of the deal here have been understood for a long time. on our side, we have acknowledged that there will be revenue in this piece, but we have to tackle the actual problem which is overspending. i am hoping that the president will prived leadership and give us frame work that makes sense so that we can make progress on this. >> you think the republicans should say no and walk away and not deal? >> that's not been the intent or hope. our hope is to solve the problem. we are ready to do it if the president will provide leadership. i think we can get it done. >> i wish you all of the best in the efforts to keep this alive. you can go to the website for more information about this event. it is happening in washington and why they can contribute. honorflight93.org. >> it is on the screen. it is important to not forget those who gave so much to the country. >> thank you, both. appreciate it >> hurricane sandy left many people homeless . now victims, moms and dad and children
cliff deadline is looming large? >> the makings of the deal here have been understood for a long time. on our side, we have acknowledged that there will be revenue in this piece, but we have to tackle the actual problem which is overspending. i am hoping that the president will prived leadership and give us frame work that makes sense so that we can make progress on this. >> you think the republicans should say no and walk away and not deal? >> that's not been the intent or...
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Nov 30, 2012
11/12
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. >>> now, the stalemate in washington over the fiscal cliff. everyone's taxes are set to go up in just over a month if congress and the white house fail to reach a deal. and the talks blew up yesterday, after republicans dismissed the latest offer from secretary tim geithner. just listen to house speaker john boehner and senate majority leader, harry reid. >> listen this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult leadership. >> i don't understand his brain. so, you should ask him. okay? >> tough words there. abc's jon karl is covering this all from capitol hill. jon, as we said, senate republican leader mitch mcconnell says he laughed out loud at geithner's offer. break down the offer from the white house and the republican objections. >> reporter: not only did he laugh out loud, the speaker saying it's unrealistic. the key is $1.6 trillion in tax increases over the next ten years. $50 billion in additional stimulus spending. $400 billion in medicare cuts. but unspecified over the ne
. >>> now, the stalemate in washington over the fiscal cliff. everyone's taxes are set to go up in just over a month if congress and the white house fail to reach a deal. and the talks blew up yesterday, after republicans dismissed the latest offer from secretary tim geithner. just listen to house speaker john boehner and senate majority leader, harry reid. >> listen this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult...
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cliff at year's end. it would raise the eligibility for medicare lower. but the plan would keep all bush-era tax cuts in place, including those for the wealthy. the president says that is a deal-breaker. >>> and the editor in chief at "vogue" magazine could become a top debit. bloomberg reporting that president obama may nominate anna wintour, as the next ambassador to either britain or france. she was among the president's top campaign fund-raisers. >>> and this morning, a powerful teachers union is trying to raise the bar for teachers, calling for a tough, certification test, not unlike the bar exam for lawyers. the federation of teachers want to maintain a 3.0 grade point average and have ten hours of field experience. sound like good ideas. >>> the flu season has arrived already. the earliest in nearly a decade. officials are warning the primary strain making the rounds right now is more severe than others, especially for the elderly. >>> finally, a reminder. never a good idea to show off. a man who w
cliff at year's end. it would raise the eligibility for medicare lower. but the plan would keep all bush-era tax cuts in place, including those for the wealthy. the president says that is a deal-breaker. >>> and the editor in chief at "vogue" magazine could become a top debit. bloomberg reporting that president obama may nominate anna wintour, as the next ambassador to either britain or france. she was among the president's top campaign fund-raisers. >>> and this...
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Dec 7, 2012
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to avoid the fiscal cliff. now a number of democrats have been pushing back saying we have not been excluded. nancy pelosi says she has spoken to the president. there are also a number of republicans saying that they are involved. michael steele, who was a spokesman for the speaker said, if we are going to solve this problem, the white house and speaker have important roles. the bottom line is that it's probably the president and speaker doing the heavy lifting on this but we will see what speaker boehner has to say. we'll have that for you live at the top of the hour. >>> in the meantime, amazing new video from nasa. you may have already seen these incredible pictures. look at this. this is the earth at night illuminated by city lights across the planet. but there's this new report about whether nasa can maintain its leadership role in space exploration. let me bring informer space shuttle engineer, james oberg. it's been a while. thank you, james. >> hello, chris. >> the council is saying that nasa is at a cr
to avoid the fiscal cliff. now a number of democrats have been pushing back saying we have not been excluded. nancy pelosi says she has spoken to the president. there are also a number of republicans saying that they are involved. michael steele, who was a spokesman for the speaker said, if we are going to solve this problem, the white house and speaker have important roles. the bottom line is that it's probably the president and speaker doing the heavy lifting on this but we will see what...
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Dec 5, 2012
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cliff. live the president's pr campaign taking him outside the white house but inside the beltway. you're taking a live look at the president glad handing the group of business leaders he'll be speaking to live any moment, this say roundtable conference for top business leaders in america and true to form shaking a lot of hands in the pr campaign preparing to take republicans to task for holding talks hostage over tax hikes for the rich. moments ago republicans put the ball back squarely inspect president's court calling for him to put another proposal on the table and get back to bargaining. >> you look at the plans that the white house has talked about thus far, they couldn't pass either house of the congress, eager to talk to the president -- >> let's talk you right to that business roundtable where the president's introduction is taking place and is about to take the mike. >> i know your team has really reached out significantly the last few months to many people in this room and i know
cliff. live the president's pr campaign taking him outside the white house but inside the beltway. you're taking a live look at the president glad handing the group of business leaders he'll be speaking to live any moment, this say roundtable conference for top business leaders in america and true to form shaking a lot of hands in the pr campaign preparing to take republicans to task for holding talks hostage over tax hikes for the rich. moments ago republicans put the ball back squarely...
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>> the two leaders discussing the fiscal cliff by telephone yesterday. no word of significant progress with just 26 days remaining to get a deal done. but there are signs of compromise. oak e oklahoma's republican senator breaking ranks, saying he's okay with raising taxes on the rich. >>> two seizures off the coast of the dominican republic last month, authorities recovering more than 50 bails of coke. it is weighing close to two tons. the drugs had a street value of $45 million. it will now be destroyed. >> are you losing your keys or misplacing your wallet. >> yes. >> there may be a quarter-sized blue tooth enabled button to communicate with a smart phone. >> sneakers, that's hysterical. >> the app will have a radar feature if they're getting warmer or colder. >> my blackberry charger. that's what i need it for. >> it just has to tell you where it is. >>> a sticky situation on a highway. in new hampshire, a tractor-trailer loaded with a cargo of maple syrup overturned on the interstate near mansfield, new hampshire. diesel fuel also spilled on to the
>> the two leaders discussing the fiscal cliff by telephone yesterday. no word of significant progress with just 26 days remaining to get a deal done. but there are signs of compromise. oak e oklahoma's republican senator breaking ranks, saying he's okay with raising taxes on the rich. >>> two seizures off the coast of the dominican republic last month, authorities recovering more than 50 bails of coke. it is weighing close to two tons. the drugs had a street value of $45...
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Nov 29, 2012
11/12
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>> the fiscal cliff is theatre, nothing more and nothing less. it's a game of political chicken, folks. it will result in a winner and a loser. >> our ultimate goal is an agreement that gets our long-term deficit under control in a way that is fair and balanced. >> if the president really wants to reach an agreement, he needs to be talking with members of his own party, right here in washington, trying to broker an agreement. not out there firing up crowds and giving speeches. >> we all know that we've had this spending crisis coming at us like a freight train. and it has to be dealt with. in order to try to come to an agreement, republicans are willing to cut revenue on the table, but it's time for the president and democrats to get serious about the spending problem that our country has. >> but the point is, there is no economic growth being discussed in the fiscal cliff argument, the solution -- there is no economic growth. not possible with what's being proposed. in fact just the exact opposite. obama does not care about economic growth. he c
>> the fiscal cliff is theatre, nothing more and nothing less. it's a game of political chicken, folks. it will result in a winner and a loser. >> our ultimate goal is an agreement that gets our long-term deficit under control in a way that is fair and balanced. >> if the president really wants to reach an agreement, he needs to be talking with members of his own party, right here in washington, trying to broker an agreement. not out there firing up crowds and giving speeches....
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now, he may, in fact, want us to all go over the fiscal cliff. after all, he would be able to point the finger of blame at the republicans to get all the tax hikes he wants, all the defense cuts he's always wanted and some democrats are stating flat out they want to go over the fiscal cliff. watch this. >> i personally think you'll get a lot more deficit reduction if we do the fiscal cliff. i think the markets will reward the fiscal cliff over a period. there will be some panic and moaning and groaning, but first of all, the fiscal cliff is not a real cliff. it's a slope. and you're going to get the biggest bank for the buck in terms of deficit reduction. i think the economy can stand it. yes, we will go into two quarters of recession the cbo says, and i believe that. we're in deep trouble here. somebody's going to have to pay the bill. it's going to have to be all of us. >> joining me with more on all of this, patrick j. buick as well as former clinton special counsel davis. the president campaigns on $800 billion in new taxes. he now wants 1.6
now, he may, in fact, want us to all go over the fiscal cliff. after all, he would be able to point the finger of blame at the republicans to get all the tax hikes he wants, all the defense cuts he's always wanted and some democrats are stating flat out they want to go over the fiscal cliff. watch this. >> i personally think you'll get a lot more deficit reduction if we do the fiscal cliff. i think the markets will reward the fiscal cliff over a period. there will be some panic and...
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Dec 4, 2012
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fiscal cliff. coming up next, i'll talk with a hard-line conservative and let's ask him if he supports his party's proposal. congressman tom price is standing by. but first, as americans worry about what happens after the first of next year, cnn is giving you free advice about your savings account. >>> here on the help desk, we're talking about putting your money to work. with me this hour are greg olson and carmen wong ulrich. tova had a question about her savings. >> it is earning dreadfully low interest for numerous years. and is there anywhere that i can put my money that it's going to do any better? >> and that's going to be like that for a while with the fed doing its thing, right? >> absolutely. i don't think this is a bad thing. if this is your cash emergency savings that you cannot risk, basically what you're paying is very small opportunity cost. like insurance. so let's say you're earning 1% on your savings, right, inflation is eating away at it a little bit. it is certainly a lot lower
fiscal cliff. coming up next, i'll talk with a hard-line conservative and let's ask him if he supports his party's proposal. congressman tom price is standing by. but first, as americans worry about what happens after the first of next year, cnn is giving you free advice about your savings account. >>> here on the help desk, we're talking about putting your money to work. with me this hour are greg olson and carmen wong ulrich. tova had a question about her savings. >> it is...
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Dec 7, 2012
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then they can't make a deal in the fiscal cliff. what do you know about your elected officials and what are they doing instead? passing a bill that bans -- had is big -- wait for it -- bans the word lunatic. that's crazy! [ man ] ring ring... progresso this reduced sodium soup says it mahelp lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just he to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. hurry in and try five succulent entrees, like ourender snow crab paired with savory garlic shrimp. just $12.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently. and introducing 7 lunch choices for just $7.99. >> gretchen: 24 minutes after the top of the hour. thanks for sharing your time with us today. let's talk a little bit about what happened in the last election. we know president obama won reelection. the house pretty much stayed the same with republicans ruling it and the se
then they can't make a deal in the fiscal cliff. what do you know about your elected officials and what are they doing instead? passing a bill that bans -- had is big -- wait for it -- bans the word lunatic. that's crazy! [ man ] ring ring... progresso this reduced sodium soup says it mahelp lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just he to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well...
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Dec 3, 2012
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it makes no sense at all to go past the fiscal cliff, maybe solve that problem, and then run right into a debt ceiling discussion. so i think what the white house is signaling is that at a minimum, any deficit package has to include this immediate february and march debt ceiling that we're going to hit. >> is jack lew the current chief of staff and former budget director the top candidate to be treasury? what is your best guess? >> he appears to be the frontrunner from everything you see and read and hear and he is a -- i've known him a long time. he's an accomplished guy. he knows these issues perfectly. he has worked in the financial community and has a sense of that and vice versa. and so i think he would be a it terrific choice. >> we should say there are a couple other people who have been rumored to being vetted. roger altman, former treasury official, larry fink, be erskine bowles. this what is alan simpson, erskine bowles' partner in the deficit commission, had to say about that possibility last week on the show. >> he said he would be very pleased to do that. he shared that wit
it makes no sense at all to go past the fiscal cliff, maybe solve that problem, and then run right into a debt ceiling discussion. so i think what the white house is signaling is that at a minimum, any deficit package has to include this immediate february and march debt ceiling that we're going to hit. >> is jack lew the current chief of staff and former budget director the top candidate to be treasury? what is your best guess? >> he appears to be the frontrunner from everything...
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Dec 1, 2012
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the fiscal cliff. but so far it's not looking like either side is willing to compromise. >> our next guest says there has been a failure in leadership to solve this crisis. joining us now is texas congressman louie gohmert. nice to see you. >> nice to see you. >> this is not necessarily against the president you have blasted g.o.p. leaders this week for a failure to lead basically saying we need to stand on our principles. they have a delegate -- delicate position to deal with. >> up until last week there had been a failure of leadership. the president out there finally pushing so far look we are going to forget the constitution. i'm going to basically pronounce law as i speak it congress hasn't done what i wanted, so we're just gonna ignore congress' constitutional right to appropriate. congress' constitutional right to set debt ceilings and we're going to ignore that that's what basically -- geithner basically announced. speaker boehner said look we can't allow that to happen. the fact is we can't. i
the fiscal cliff. but so far it's not looking like either side is willing to compromise. >> our next guest says there has been a failure in leadership to solve this crisis. joining us now is texas congressman louie gohmert. nice to see you. >> nice to see you. >> this is not necessarily against the president you have blasted g.o.p. leaders this week for a failure to lead basically saying we need to stand on our principles. they have a delegate -- delicate position to deal...